coming together2

Los Claveles: The Opposition View

Continuing with the story of Los Claveles, Inside Timeshare has been asked by Roger Barrow to publish the following letter.

It is published as there are always two sides to every debate, without this balance nothing will be solved. All owners must have access to both arguments, you may not agree with this letter, but there are many owners who do not know what is going on. From the many comments and emails we have received there does appear to be some personal grudges being vented.

Inside Timeshare asks that you put these aside and try to work together, you all believe that you have a lovely resort, many of you have owned for years. Going through the internet we have found many negative comments about other timeshares, but not about Los Claveles or in fact any of the other resorts such as Las Casitas, where Roger is President of the Committee of Owners.

We leave it to you the readers to decide.

los claveles opposition logo

PRESS RELEASE

Los Claveles Committee – Owners Fight Back

In 2015, Ivan Pengelly of WimPen, who were the appointed administrators for Los Claveles along with several other resorts in the Canary Islands, sold his shares to OnaGrup, who he judged were the best company to help improve the rental income for blocked and unsold villas in the resorts. All the resorts were suffering from an aging population of owners and an increasing number of debtors. This sale to OnaGrup was subject to a confidentiality agreement.

Once the sale was complete, Ivan Pengelly announced the sale to the resort owners. While there were a few ‘bumps in the road’ and much anxiety by owners in most of the resorts, calm and measured negotiation with OnaGrup resulted in amicable and mutually agreeable arrangements for the continued management of the resorts. With the exception of Los Claveles that is.

A Los Claveles committee meeting, on the casting vote of the Chairman, decided to terminate WimPen’s contract. A subsequent General Meeting voted 329 to 236 to retain Wimpen, however this result was overturned by proxy votes, including the chairman’s discretionary proxies. The final voting was 863 for termination with 823 against.

“We believe this decision was premature and we want to challenge the Claveles committee and way they have handled this dispute”, said Roger Barrow, chair of the newly formed opposition working group. “It has led to the most acrimonious of disputes, with owner set against owner. The dispute has now launched into an expensive arbitration and legal battle, when the committee could have followed the simple and straightforward process to appoint a new administrator, a process set out in the constitution.”

“It was a knee-jerk reaction which we believe owners will regret,” said Mr Barrow.

So, what is the situation now? While everyone awaits the full outcome of the arbitration and legal appeals, Wimpen, now without a contract, have continued as Acting Administrators, successfully managing the resort. They look after the finances, maintenance, cleaning, resort improvements and employ the staff. Owners still must pay their maintenance to WimPen to gain access to their villas.

“The club committee are also demanding payment with threats that owners are acting illegally and risk losing their membership if they don’t”, said Marilyn Fry, the group’s secretary. “This leaves owners bewildered, confused and very anxious. Some have paid twice to Wimpen and the Club, a few have successfully obtained a refund from the club. But for owners, this is a very unsettling situation”.

“There is also an unsatisfactory level of secrecy in the club”, continued Mrs Fry, “With owners who criticise or oppose the committee’s actions banned from the owner’s website and social media, which is heavily censored”.

So, what is the solution? The opposition working group are setting out to challenge the owners’ committee and believe that by giving WimPen a new contract, owners can regain control and should then allow Wimpen time to show what they can do before following the correct process to either continue with WimPen or appoint a new administrator.

“We all want the same thing in the end,” said Mr Barrow. “A happy and efficient resort that operates as successfully as all the other resorts in WimPen’s portfolio.”

www.losclaveles-alt.eu | info@losclaveles-alt.eu | 0796 222 4554

The opening paragraph clearly explains the problem that all timeshare resorts have, owners who are now elderly, many unable to travel, owners who can no longer afford the maintenance fees and a new generation that do not believe in the concept of timeshare.

With this diminishing population of owners the only way these resorts can survive is by increasing the maintenance fees of the remaining owners, or by renting out the unsold and returned weeks.

Inside Timeshare has given you a platform to begin a discussion and resolve this issue, it is your resort, you are among the lucky owners of timeshare, you do have a say in how your resort is run. For those who own in the points system, which the Spanish Supreme Court has deemed illegal, they do not have these rights. They are members of a vacation club, with only a right to use and this is subject to availability.

Inside Timeshare will continue to publish news as it comes in, we also hope to publish the news that you have all come together and resolved the issue. We wish you all the best.


41 Comments

  • Chris Casey

    November 30, 2017

    Lets be very clear. There is nothing official about this group! They are a small, self appointed and self elected group of people with personal grudges against individual committee members, fronted by a politician who acquired a week at Los Claveles solely so that he could claim to speak for owners.
    This missive is filled with half-truths and PR statements.
    The General meeting did not vote to retain ONAGRUP (They insist on referring to the wholly owned subsidiary to provide a comfort feeling) to have it overturned. The numbers quoted there include ONAGRUP using their acquired weeks to try and vote themselves into a contract.
    The only people banned from a facebook group – not the official owners website as incorrectly stated – are people who refused to follow the facebook page owners rules of conduct. Unsurprisingly most of them voted themselves to form this unofficial cabal.

    Reply
    • Susan Mackenzie

      December 1, 2017

      Sorry to dispute you Chris but I have no personal grudges against anybody. And I also refuse to blindly follow the Committee who caused this entire debacle. And who continue to refuse to work with Wimpen…who have done them no wrong,,,to end this debacle. It’s the blind supporters who are continuing to refuse to work together, hence the reason a new group was formed to encourage all owners to end this nonsense.

      Reply
      • Chris Casey

        December 1, 2017

        Sue, your comments on the facebook pages would suggest otherwise but it is pointless getting into a tit for tat regarding personal feelings so will leave that there.
        I am astounded by the statement that the committee refuse to work with ONAGRUP as it is they who have refused at every point to negotiate in good faith or conform to the arbiters decisions.

        Reply
      • Sid Thirkell

        December 1, 2017

        Susan stop following the personal attack routine no one has abused you give someone reasons why you want Ona to acquire a hotel

        Reply
        • Sue Mackenzie

          December 4, 2017

          Sid Thirkell?? Oh really? Why have you hijacked Dennis’s surname? Who are you really?? Because I’m damned sure Sid Thirkell doesn’t exist. Or if he does it certainly isn’t you. Impersonating somebody else really is the lowest of the low. And I have not followed any personal attack. Whom have I attacked? Proof please.

          Reply
    • Roger Barrow

      December 1, 2017

      Dear Chris

      I was disappointed to read your rather personal attack on me which was quite unnecessary. We are perfectly at liberty to create an opposition group and may not agree on the way the committee are going about handling this dispute, or how we got here, but we all want the same thing in the end. Why not work with us and try and understand our point of view then perhaps we can all work to a compromise.

      with compliments of the season

      Roger

      Reply
      • Chris Casey

        December 1, 2017

        Roger, I am sorry that you regarded my post as a personal attack. I thought I was simply stating the facts.
        Of course you can create whatever group you like and say what you like. I was objecting to the fact that 6-12 people get together and call themselves ‘official’ in at attempt to create some sort of legitimacy.
        I do not believe that you want the same thing as the majority of owners. What you want is for everyone to simply roll over and give ONAGRUP everything that they require. They have no contract, they are not the club administrators, they need to abide by the BINDING arbitration that they entered into and they should stop trying to hold everyone to ransom with your help.

        Reply
      • Sid Thirkell

        December 1, 2017

        Susan same argument different forum
        Work with the committee to get Ona/wimpen to release the register that belongs to the club Then ALL OWNERS can be canvassed then have a vote on the future . They call it democracy.

        Reply
      • Sid Therkell

        December 3, 2017

        Grow up Roger that wasn’t personal grow a pair man your a politician you should be use to it

        Reply
  • Jean-Pierre

    November 30, 2017

    R.B. forget a lot of things to tell. He is following the old saying “keep telling the lie long enough then everyone will believe it is the truth”. But the Clubcats become lions.

    Reply
    • Dennis Thirkell

      November 30, 2017

      Thanks for the brilliant comment what you have failed to do it tell the lies what RB is telling .?? I await your comment with interest .

      Reply
    • Julie lear

      November 30, 2017

      Please elaborate what lies it is you believe he is telling ! We would all be interested to know ! You can’t accuse somebody of lying without 1. Proof that they are lying and 2. Telling people what you believe they are lying about!

      Reply
      • Sid Thirkell

        December 1, 2017

        Simply put he is lying regards of onas motives regarding acquiring a hotel on the cheap it’s all been done by them before

        Reply
        • Sue Mackenzie

          December 4, 2017

          Sid Thirkell???? or whoever you are???…They might call it democracy. I’m pretty sure you don’t.
          If Ona/Wimpen are so very dreadful and are trying to steal Las Claveles from the owners, according to you, please explain why all the owners from four….yes FOUR….other resorts have all voted Wimpen in for another three years on contract??? Wouldn’t that tell you that somebody here is wrong, and it certainly isn’t the supporters of Wimpen!

          Reply
          • Sid Thirkell

            December 4, 2017

            Quite easy answer to the question by the way I believe it is nine resorts
            Ms Mackenzie they all have compliant committees such as Roger Barrow at las Casitas . That what makes Los Claveles unique it has a committee that can not be bought
            I use a alias because of the abuse I have received in the past from your group

  • Dennis thirkell

    December 1, 2017

    Mr Casey please provide the evidence regarding lies please provide the evidence about fb please provide the evidence that another group can’t oppose th committee which there believe there wrong . Please can you provide e licence to all we’re the owners who pay the committee is going thank you

    Reply
    • Dennis thirkell.

      December 1, 2017

      Chris Casey at claveles other last fees week alone wimpen owners have come out in force just the past week 75% we’re for owners we all want the the same thing believe it or not and if you thing that 6/12 people got together then your very much mistaken . Àny way what ever any one says you don’t believe them . Have a nice Xmas

      Reply
      • Sid Thirkell

        December 2, 2017

        Denis this again is a lie I have been on the resort last week and I have to say every owner I spoke with was in full support of the official committee

        Reply
  • Edward

    December 1, 2017

    Marilyn Fry states “With owners who criticise or oppose the committee’s actions banned from the owner’s website and social media, which is heavily censored.”
    This is incorrect; I have been in contact with the administrator of the owner’s website who assures me that no-one has been or will be banned from the website for opposing or criticising the Committee.
    The owner’s website and the Committee have nothing to do with the social media site which is independently run by its own administrator who has his own set of rules for members to abide by.
    There are members of that social media website who do criticise the Committee but abide by the sites rules and therefore have not been banned.

    Reply
  • Marilyn Fry

    December 1, 2017

    Hi Edward, yes I am sure that you have indeed been told all of the above but the administrator himself knows that the information you have been given is not 100% correct.
    People have been banned even those of us who have never sworn or been rude to anyone. In return we have been on the receiving end of some easily verified angry and rude outbursts.
    I have tried to remain polite and explain our point of view to which we are entitled .
    I am not prepared to continue this dialogue in such a public forum.
    With all hope of a good outcome for all owners.
    Marilyn

    Reply
    • Sid Thirkell

      December 2, 2017

      Marilyn I have been on the end some personal abuse by Mr and Mrs Lear and threatened by Denis Thirkell. I can provide evidence as save comments , I will not publish them as may be used in evidence at a later date
      I also use a false name as I am intimidated by Ona/wimpen as they are refusing entry to villas on the view I have on the dispute

      Reply
      • Sue Mackenzie

        December 4, 2017

        Sid Thirkell or whoever you are??? So you obviously don’t have the courage to show your face, but feel you have the right to abuse others? Go away little man. We won’t be bothering to answer you again.

        Reply
        • Sid Thirkell

          December 4, 2017

          Ms Mackenzie please refrain from the personal comments
          I will continue to comment and expose Ona/wimpen and nepotism that exists in this dispute. Your right I use a different name As you are aware some employees of Ona can be quite nasty

          Reply
    • Edward

      December 2, 2017

      Marilyn, I think you are continually confusing the owner’s website with that of the social media site. To what purpose or intent one can only speculate. They are two separate entities. The owners website is for all owners, Escritura and Club, it has its own url and has over 1000 members, the social media site – i.e. Facebook, is solely for Club members and has far fewer members.
      The administrators of the two separate and independent sites are not the same person!

      Reply
  • Sid Thirkell

    December 1, 2017

    Marilyn Fry is down right liar with personal issues with the committee.
    Roger Barrow is a politician with a directorship with a holding that is owned by wimpen
    Denis Thirkell has a personal grievance with the face book site administrator and was thrown of for been very rude to other owners. Owners have been bullied intimidated threatened and assaulted be Ona/wimpen this is truly a David v Goliath fight

    Reply
    • Marilyn Fry

      December 1, 2017

      Dear Mr Thirkell – I have to call you that but I do believe that is not your name- please refer all of your grievances regarding me to our Facebook page.
      I will not bring this dispute into the public domain in this way .
      If you would be so kind as to elaborate your thoughts and what you consider to be facts about me in a letter I will answer you point by point .
      Thank you

      Reply
      • Sid Thirkell

        December 2, 2017

        You mean your secretive face book page where you can’t have any view that doesn’t support the complete hand over of our resort to wimpen/Ona
        It is time for change wimpen have installed themselves with a management contract for the last 2 decades ( not an ownership contract)
        Marilyn next time you speak with Pengelly or Ona
        Ask them
        1 to release the register
        2 abide by the arbitration awards already made
        3 let owners into their villas that have paid club Los Claveles
        4 hand over all property bank accounts etc that belong legally to club Los Claveles
        5 transfer deeds from FNTC to Hutchinson’s as requested by Pengelly himself in 2012.
        Wimpenona need to act on these issues or they will be in court . Then only then we might sit down and discuss how Ona/wimpen are going to leave our resort

        Reply
  • Dennis thirkell

    December 1, 2017

    Dear Mr thirkell.your facts are in correct but I ask you you to contact Marilyn fry personally and not on an open website as for been bullied and been intimidated I suggest you look.no.furtheron your own forum..

    Reply
  • Sid Thirkell

    December 2, 2017

    Marlyn fry I don’t have any issues with you other then you support wimpen/Ona I completely understand your stance on this dispute and completely understand your motives . I too would support my friends.
    I have no intention of joining your forum . I have intentions of joining the new alternative FB Site for las crasitas its about time those
    owners know what a despicable organisation Ona/wimpen are.
    I’m under an alias because with my views against wimpen/Ona they are likely to refuse entry to my villa , and can’t risk putting my familys holiday in jeopardy

    Reply
  • Dennis thirkell

    December 2, 2017

    Mr thirkell.we could.all.sy the same as you bit we won’t the only way this dispute will.be settled is by the courts not by you or me . What this dispute as done to both sides as put owners against ea h other which is wrong but it take 2 to sit down and talk and that’s what we need to do .you Can ask for the the database you can ask for the bank accounts ECT will.you get them.i don’t think the question that always comes back to me is why all this started and we’re is all the money the committee gone who h as been collected

    Reply
    • Sid Thirkell

      December 2, 2017

      First of all club Los Claveles is a non profit organisation all the money that is paid to the club is then refund and then payed to Ona/wimpen as an extortion fee but you know all this you and all the others that are producing lies regarding the committee have all been pointed umpteen to very credible evidence that Ona/wimpen WOULD NOT SIT DOWN ROUND A TABLE IN EARLY 2015 you all have your reasons why you can’t see what is going on

      Reply
      • Sid Thirkell

        December 2, 2017

        Please it’s Sid

        Reply
  • Dennis thirkell

    December 2, 2017

    I was not going to answer this sis but I need to clear this up . 1 ‘re you saying that that your refunding owners ? 2 are you saying that you pay wimpen at an extortion fee ?? Which liesami or all of us telling I find this one very interesting . As for not sitting round the table like e everything there is always 2 side to a story all everyone wants is a holiday . But I still won’t change my mind there are faults on both sides I stand by that . We have to see what the future brings

    Reply
    • Sid Theikel

      December 2, 2017

      You no what Denis there you go again you refuse to listen to facts figures evidence and people’s experiences of ona group you pick the slightest point and try and turn it into a mountain? You know what I hope you get what you want? Ona managing ,taking over ownership and turning your resort into a hotel then I can come back in the future and laud it over on you when you have lost your weeks good bye I will not reply to you again you win and I mean it I will not reply again . As always you will have to have the last word .

      Reply
  • Richard

    December 4, 2017

    If I could just reply to a comment made by Mr Barrow in his letter. With reference to ‘The committee could have engaged a new Administrator as set out in the Constitution’ Yep did that and Wimpen/Ona chose to ignore that fact totally. Also to going down the expensive route of Arbitration, this was supposed to be the quickest and cheapest method of sorting this difference of opinion out. Which it may well have been originally if not for the various delays, arguments and other tactics that seem to have been employed even down to the end result where Wimpen/Ona ‘had won’ and then appealed to outcome, something that is also mentioned in the Arbitration clause in the Constitution as the outcome being binding on both sides. Well we all know now where that has got us. Ms Frys comment about a few owners have managed to obtain a refund but many have paid twice, another figment of the overworked imagination I think. But as another poster has said, ‘if you post the same lies often enough it must be the truth’

    Reply
    • Roger Barrow

      December 4, 2017

      your last sentence is so true Mr Burston

      Reply
      • Sid Thirkell

        December 4, 2017

        Roger Barrow would you mind talking to the member of your unofficial committee regards personal abuse made on this forum towards myself
        I find it unacceptable once again that Susan Mackenzie is acting unprofessionaly and should no doubt know better if this continues I will have no option but to place a formal complaint with the official chairman And committee.
        As you are aware I use an alternative user name as I fear Reprisals as shown by Ms Mackenzie.

        Reply
        • Roger Barrow

          December 4, 2017

          we will no longer respond to anonymous comments

          Reply
      • Richard

        December 5, 2017

        Which is exactly why I said it!

        Reply
  • Alex

    December 5, 2017

    Mrs Fry’s quote “With owners who criticise or oppose the committee’s actions banned from the owner’s website and social media, which is heavily censored” is a LIE. Much like Inside Timeshare, Posts are monitored prior to approval, this is not censorship, whereas Comments are free of restriction.
    As an admin of the Facebook sites with over 500 members and I can confirm that that only a very small number have been removed (not blocked) for not abiding by the Group Description. These owners where contacted using Facebook Personal Message in an attempt to justify their actions prior to being removed.
    The Facebook Groups are Closed to protect contributors from unauthorized access to protect contributors.

    Reply
  • Alex Lovatt

    December 5, 2017

    Mr Barrow in all our communications you have failed to acknowledge that Wimpen/Ona have refused to abide by the Constitution. What are your comments on Clause 14 and 15?
    Club Los Claveles Constitution Management Agreement, Clause 14 quotes:
    “Any dispute or difference arising out of this Agreement SHALL be referred to the decision of a SINGLE Arbiter to be agreed between the parties or in default of agreement to be appointed upon the application of either party by the President for the time being of the Law Society of Scotland and the award of such Arbiter, including as to expenses, SHALL be FINAL and BINDING on all parties.”
    Clause 15 quote “The Founder Members and the Management Company IRREVOCABLY:-
    (i) Submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of Scotland”
    Wimpen have refused to comply with Arbitration Awards to release the Owners Register and a specified sum of money from the Los Claveles Community’s own bank account to cover legal fees.

    Reply

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